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Post by alon on Sept 25, 2014 22:32:38 GMT -8
All of them are Biblical. That's why I quoted the scriptures (except I don't have the reference for the one about cattle).
Think of it like the IRS. It is legal to do your taxes based on a 1 Jan to 31 Dec year, or to do them based on a fiscal year. The only difference is God is more generous than the IRS. He gives you all four new years, while the IRS makes you choose one (stingy beggars).
Dan C
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Post by alon on Sept 25, 2014 22:40:41 GMT -8
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Post by alon on Sept 27, 2014 2:33:51 GMT -8
Again, to bring things back on track: do you plan to move further into Messianic Judaism this year? If so, how.
Many of you may not be ready to take this step, and that is OK. We are all at different places in our walk. If this is your case, what are your plans for moving forward so that later, possibly in the Days of Awe next year you can move up to the status of a proselyte, one who's made a commitment and is learning to become Messianic Judaic.
Others may see this as unnecessary and unwanted. I'm sure you have your reasons. While we may discuss anyone's reasons for their decisions, we should try not to be too judgmental. Everyone is where they are because they are called by God o be there. For some moving to the satus of a ger toshav may not work. So be it.
It'd just be good in this time of introspection to get an idea where everyone is at and where they are going with their walk.
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Post by alon on Sept 27, 2014 2:50:18 GMT -8
I'll start. I am ger toshav, as I don't keep all the commandments perfectly living in a divided household. I am moving towards being ger tsedek very slowly, learning more as I go along this journey even if I can't implement it.
I am hampered somewhat by medical conditions and the drugs I must take, some of which really mess with my mind. But I plug away in faith, flooding the forum here when my mind is able. Sorry if it seems overbearing at times. Just when my mind is sharp, or often when God cuts through the fog, I type. Then I can refer back to these posts whenever I need to so it helps me as well.
My plan is simple; keep pushing forward in my knowledge, push through the fog when I can and take advantage of those times God cuts the fog and clarifies what I need say. Step up my witness and try to get a study group here in town. They've been resistant so far.
Mostly I need to get my spiritual life in order. Talk to God more, walk with Him more, and remember to include him from the first in any projects. And respect Him more; stop pushing to see how far I can go without transgressing  - Shabbath, for example. Be careful what kind of "work" I do on Shabbath and how I handle necessary work.
That's my plan so far. What about yours?
Dan
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laina
New Member
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Post by laina on Sept 27, 2014 10:14:42 GMT -8
In my understanding, there is only 1 New Year according to God's word.
You said according to Talmud - and then listed scriptures to prove the four New Years.
Numbers 29:1 says 7th month. Obviously not the beginning of a new year biblically speaking. Maybe Israel (man) chose it as a beginning to their civil year, but it's not a biblical new year.
In Leviticus 25, it seems to me that the Lord is setting down requirements of harvest and allowing the land to have a rest, etc. I don't see a new year beginning here. It's a new way of life; they haven't entered the promised land yet. It's really discussing the agricultural cycle.
Leviticus 19, the Lord is setting up His requirements for the harvesting of trees.
1 Nisan seems to be the Lord's declaration of the New Year for the Israelites.
It'so difficult for me to take seriously the fact that The New Year has just taken place for Israel when The Lord said it will be Nisan. It seems an affront and maybe even blasphemous.
II just tried to find out via Google why the change. There's been discussions and suggestions, but no one really knows why the change.
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Post by alon on Sept 27, 2014 11:41:25 GMT -8
It is a little difficult to wrap our Greco-Roman heads around. It's just a different way of thinking. To us, the New Year delineates a block of months we call the calendar, and there can only be one new year per block.
The Jewish "calendar" was not so well defined. It really was set each spring when God determined it based on the first new moon after the barley was in the aviv stage, the fruit was ripening, or the Sanhedrin determined it was getting too late. Two of these three had to be observed, and only one could be determined by men. So Elohim set the "calendar" and the year, and consequently the days we would worship Him on His moedim, His set apart times. This being the case, it is easy to see how their concept of "new years" was somewhat different, and could refer to several (4) different events each year delineating different aspects of civil, religious and agricultural life. It is also why God can say the new year is in the seventh month ... it's the seventh month since He set up the current years calendar.
Ironically, the month of Aviv, which is when the calendar is set for the year, is not listed in either the Talmud (to my knowledge- I'm not a Talmudic scholar) nor more importantly in the Bible as a "new year." Aviv is also a season (Spring), although I am assured by those who've lived in Israel there are only two seasons there- Summer and Winter. And it is a stage in the ripening of cereal grain crops.
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Sept 27, 2014 19:02:08 GMT -8
It is a little difficult to wrap our Greco-Roman heads around. It's just a different way of thinking. To us, the New Year delineates a block of months we call the calendar, and there can only be one new year per block.
The Jewish "calendar" was not so well defined. It really was set each spring when God determined it based on the first new moon after the barley was in the aviv stage, the fruit was ripening, or the Sanhedrin determined it was getting too late. Two of these three had to be observed, and only one could be determined by men. So Elohim set the "calendar" and the year, and consequently the days we would worship Him on His moedim, His set apart times. This being the case, it is easy to see how their concept of "new years" was somewhat different, and could refer to several (4) different events each year delineating different aspects of civil, religious and agricultural life. It is also why God can say the new year is in the seventh month ... it's the seventh month since He set up the current years calendar.
Ironically, the month of Aviv, which is when the calendar is set for the year, is not listed in either the Talmud (to my knowledge- I'm not a Talmudic scholar) nor more importantly in the Bible as a "new year." Aviv is also a season (Spring), although I am assured by those who've lived in Israel there are only two seasons there- Summer and Winter. And it is a stage in the ripening of cereal grain crops.
Dan C
The month of Nisan was set in Egypt, when The Israelites had the first Passover, and began to leave Egypt. Aviv is the final stage of the Barley being in full head, ready for harvest.
The basic meaning of the word aviv is the stage in the growth of grain when the seeds have reached full size and are filling with starch, but have not dried yet. During the plague of hail (Exodus 9:31), the barley was said to be aviv and the flax giv`ol.
The month in the Hebrew calendar when the barley has reached or passed this stage (Exodus 13:4; 23:15) is called Aviv, or the "month of the aviv": the seventh of the Jewish civil year, and the first of the Biblical ecclesiastical year. It begins about the time of the Northern spring equinox (March 21).
Exodus 12:1-5 (CJB)
1 Adonai spoke to Moshe and Aharon in the land of Egypt; he said,
2 “You are to begin your calendar with this month; it will be the first month of the year for you.
3 Speak to all the assembly of Isra’el and say, ‘On the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb or kid for his family, one per household —
4 except that if the household is too small for a whole lamb or kid, then he and his next-door neighbor should share one, dividing it in proportion to the number of people eating it.
5 Your animal must be without defect, a male in its first year, and you may choose it from either the sheep or the goats.
Partly this was triggered by the lambing season. The lamb for sacrifice had to be male, and within it's 1st year, which could only be known at the time of lambing. The lambing season in Israel is March/April (Nisan), and Pesach occurs smack in the middle of it.
Nisan has to be far enough advanced that the previous years lambs would be a full year old, and goats and sheep calve in the late winter/early spring, about the same time that the barley would be well up, and the herbs have plenty to eat to make milk for the lambs.
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Post by Questor on Sept 27, 2014 19:06:21 GMT -8
Again, to bring things back on track: do you plan to move further into Messianic Judaism this year? If so, how.
Many of you may not be ready to take this step, and that is OK. We are all at different places in our walk. If this is your case, what are your plans for moving forward so that later, possibly in the Days of Awe next year you can move up to the status of a proselyte, one who's made a commitment and is learning to become Messianic Judaic.
Others may see this as unnecessary and unwanted. I'm sure you have your reasons. While we may discuss anyone's reasons for their decisions, we should try not to be too judgmental. Everyone is where they are because they are called by God o be there. For some moving to the satus of a ger toshav may not work. So be it.
It'd just be good in this time of introspection to get an idea where everyone is at and where they are going with their walk. |
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Post by alon on Sept 27, 2014 22:09:54 GMT -8
It is a little difficult to wrap our Greco-Roman heads around. It's just a different way of thinking. To us, the New Year delineates a block of months we call the calendar, and there can only be one new year per block.
The Jewish "calendar" was not so well defined. It really was set each spring when God determined it based on the first new moon after the barley was in the aviv stage, the fruit was ripening, or the Sanhedrin determined it was getting too late. Two of these three had to be observed, and only one could be determined by men. So Elohim set the "calendar" and the year, and consequently the days we would worship Him on His moedim, His set apart times. This being the case, it is easy to see how their concept of "new years" was somewhat different, and could refer to several (4) different events each year delineating different aspects of civil, religious and agricultural life. It is also why God can say the new year is in the seventh month ... it's the seventh month since He set up the current years calendar.
Ironically, the month of Aviv, which is when the calendar is set for the year, is not listed in either the Talmud (to my knowledge- I'm not a Talmudic scholar) nor more importantly in the Bible as a "new year." Aviv is also a season (Spring), although I am assured by those who've lived in Israel there are only two seasons there- Summer and Winter. And it is a stage in the ripening of cereal grain crops.
Dan C
The month of Nisan was set in Egypt, when The Israelites had the first Passover, and began to leave Egypt. Aviv is the final stage of the Barley being in full head, ready for harvest.
The basic meaning of the word aviv is the stage in the growth of grain when the seeds have reached full size and are filling with starch, but have not dried yet. During the plague of hail (Exodus 9:31), the barley was said to be aviv and the flax giv`ol.
The month in the Hebrew calendar when the barley has reached or passed this stage (Exodus 13:4; 23:15) is called Aviv, or the "month of the aviv": the seventh of the Jewish civil year, and the first of the Biblical ecclesiastical year. It begins about the time of the Northern spring equinox (March 21).
Exodus 12:1-5 (CJB)
1 Adonai spoke to Moshe and Aharon in the land of Egypt; he said,
2 “You are to begin your calendar with this month; it will be the first month of the year for you.
3 Speak to all the assembly of Isra’el and say, ‘On the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb or kid for his family, one per household —
4 except that if the household is too small for a whole lamb or kid, then he and his next-door neighbor should share one, dividing it in proportion to the number of people eating it.
5 Your animal must be without defect, a male in its first year, and you may choose it from either the sheep or the goats.
Partly this was triggered by the lambing season. The lamb for sacrifice had to be male, and within it's 1st year, which could only be known at the time of lambing. The lambing season in Israel is March/April (Nisan), and Pesach occurs smack in the middle of it.
Nisan has to be far enough advanced that the previous years lambs would be a full year old, and goats and sheep calve in the late winter/early spring, about the same time that the barley would be well up, and the herbs have plenty to eat to make milk for the lambs.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Sept 27, 2014 22:36:59 GMT -8
Again, to bring things back on track: do you plan to move further into Messianic Judaism this year? If so, how.
Many of you may not be ready to take this step, and that is OK. We are all at different places in our walk. If this is your case, what are your plans for moving forward so that later, possibly in the Days of Awe next year you can move up to the status of a proselyte, one who's made a commitment and is learning to become Messianic Judaic.
Others may see this as unnecessary and unwanted. I'm sure you have your reasons. While we may discuss anyone's reasons for their decisions, we should try not to be too judgmental. Everyone is where they are because they are called by God o be there. For some moving to the satus of a ger toshav may not work. So be it.
It'd just be good in this time of introspection to get an idea where everyone is at and where they are going with their walk.
www.synagoguechm.com/livestreaming.html
at 10:00 AM Pacific time on Shabbath. Sit through their service and then tell me whether this is Messianic Judaism or not! (I actually recommend you do this anyhow if at all able to do so).
A ger toshav generally lives by Hebraic/Judaic law, but has not necessarily taken on the full mantle of or halachic law. Often in adult males, now as in the time of the apostles, circumcision is a key issue. Here we have some who just do not have the example of Jewish life to go by, so we do what we can. Some don't see the need to take on the mantle of Judaism, saying "sola scriptura" and "all I need do is what is in ." Neh, everyone has to start somewhere I suppose ... 
Also called "God Fearers," the ger toshav is saved and considered righteous among the nations. However all these terms should be understood to have no meaning in Rabbinical Judaism, as they do not even recognize a born Jew who believes in Yeshua as being Jewish. Furthermore the Knesset (Israeli Parlaiment) and the Rabbis have, as I understand it anyhow, stopped granting these titles to even those in the process of becoming Rabbinicly Jewish. We use the terms because they are Biblical, and thus still have meaning. But be aware of the difference in perception if talking to a Jewish person.
I am ger toshav because of my situation with my wife, and because I do not have the example of Jewish life to fall back on. When asked, I simply say I am a proselyte to Messianic Judaism, learning as I go. If talking to Christians who I think might be looking to ridicule, I say I'm Natsar. That usually stops them cold, and they have to ask "What's that?" I reply "We worship as the first century church." They haven't (at least to date) come up with a negative reply to that. I do hate saying "church" instead of synagogue, but I consider my audience and ... 
Dan C |
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- there are 70 faces to 
No, it wasn't intended. Good catch!
