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Post by jimmie on Dec 5, 2014 6:13:37 GMT -8
Your conclusion leaves us with the problem that God commanded man to break God's commandment. Which, in trun, means God is a god of confussion. While God will cerntainly test his people as he did Abraham with Isaac and Peter with the sheet of unclean animals. He doesn't get them to break his laws. Abraham didn't kill Isaac and Peter didn't eat the unclean.
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Post by alon on Dec 5, 2014 7:37:23 GMT -8
Your conclusion leaves us with the problem that God commanded man to break God's commandment. Which, in trun, means God is a god of confussion. While God will cerntainly test his people as he did Abraham with Isaac and Peter with the sheet of unclean animals. He doesn't get them to break his laws. Abraham didn't kill Isaac and Peter didn't eat the unclean.
* God clearly said not to make graven images, and
* God clearly made exceptions for His own purposes, such as in the Temple as well as the serpent.
Your conclusion that He was merely testing us is where the confusion lies. You are saying He doesn't mean what He says; it's all just some test. I'd suggest the test is in whether we obey, just as with Abraham. It is not in whether or not we can tell when He means what He says! God always means what He says!
This is the kind of convoluted thinking that gets mainC into so much trouble. If God isn't consistent, if His word is not true, then there is no truth. Peter knew this, and so held out for the answer to an apparent contradiction; and he got it! Whenever it appears that God has contradicted Himself, the answer is going to be in our understanding, not in His word.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Dec 5, 2014 10:42:10 GMT -8
Alon,
Please keep in mind that chapter and verse references are just markers and are not indented to determine how scripture is read. Ex 20:4 is not a standalone statement and doesn’t end with “.” Look at the Jewish Publication Society version of the Bible which has somewhat different reference markers from the KJV standard verse references:
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments
- Exodus 20:3ff [JPS]
The second commandment: 'Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.' in conjunction with 'Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them,' puts the prohibition against graven images in context: nothing shall receive worship that is reserved for God. So worship is at the center of the second commandment: worship of the one true God is allowed, and worship of graven images is not allowed. It is a specific strengthening of the monotheism of the first commandment which says 'I am the LORD thy God.'
Jimmie
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Post by alon on Dec 5, 2014 13:05:27 GMT -8
I am well aware that chapter and verse references were added later, and that they are at times different in the JPS TNK. They are not scripture, but rather a tool added to help us study and reference scripture. I have also read this all in context; and I agreed earlier with you that worship of the images in the Temple would be sin. Worship of any image is sin, as only Elohim is worthy of worship. However the issue you were challenging is our own making of images as we see fit, implying there is no sin in this. Clearly that is not said in any reading of the scriptures. Making, owning or worshiping of any image is sin, since there is no Temple. If there were a Temple, then yes, worship of any images there would also be sin. However God did clearly make an exception in that specific images were commanded to be made there. His house, His rules; it is what scripture says.
Dan C
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- there are 70 faces to 
