Yeshua is Leader of His Own Sect

[alon]

The gospel is Yeshua’s mishna. His explanations of the truth of scripture was like water to dying men. Jews from all sects followed Yeshua; Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, some from the schools of Hillel and Shammai. Yeshua probably was a Pharisee of the school of Hillel before His ministry. Like Yochanan the Immerser, when He started His own ministry, He had His own sect of followers as well.

Yeshua was a sheliach tzibur- a leader and speaker of a sect. This can be a secular title, but has special significance in a religious sense: sheliach- apostle, tzibur- announcer. A student of the TNK and the Law, and led by the Ruach HaChodesh, He spoke only that which was of His Father.

If it is God’s law then it is Yeshua’s law, and if Yeshua’s law then it is God’s law. If you believe under Christ’s law and not the “Old Testament” God’s law, then you’re talking about 2 Gods. This is idolatry.

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

Jhn 5:23 "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

Jhn 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."


Dan C

[Deleted]

I'm not so sure about this one.

[Deleted]

If you say that Yeshua was a Pharisee, how come no where in the bible is it recorded? And to which sect was He from?

Moriah Ruth

[Deleted]

The only one that I recall calling himself a Pharisee was Paul. For he stated that he was a Pharisee among all Pharisees. And if Yeshua was a Pharisee why did He not state that he was?

I had another question, however it poofed out of my thoughts.

Moriah Ruth

[alon]

Feb 22, 2014 18:07:02 GMT -8 @moriahruth7 said:

I'm not so sure about this one.

Feb 22, 2014 18:08:04 GMT -8 @moriahruth7 said:

If you say that Yeshua was a Pharisee, how come no where in the bible is it recorded? And to which sect was He from?

Moriah Ruth

I said He was "probably" a Pharisee. This is what many scholars believe because so many of His sayings were in line with their beliefs. Not all, but most by far. It is further surmised that He studied under the House of Hillel, again for the same reasons.

However, in His own ministry He agreed with Shamai over Hillel on some points, and His cleansing of the Temple was a purely Shamaimite type of action! So He obviously had His own school of thought.

One good example of reasoning that He was a Pharisee is that He so often argued with Pharisees. To confront someone from another sect was not done, except for grievous offenses in the Temple itself. So whether they confronted Him, or He confronted them, it was always from within His own sect. Always with the Pharisees. In His own ministry, Yeshua apparently remained a sub-sect of the Pharisees.

But you are correct, it is not clearly stated in scripture. So take or leave this as you please. The important point here is that the besorah of Yeshua is the same as that of , as both were authored by the same God.

Dan C

[Deleted]

My thinking is this. If Yeshua is God who came in the flesh, than He would not be considered a Pharisee or from any sect. YET, yes He would have been taught by His parents from one of the sects, however I am thinking that He who is God had His own thoughts on certain things that were taught in each sect. Also He never agreed to most of what the Pharisees were teaching or trying to force upon the people. He never took sides on any of them. Again this is just my thoughts.

Moriah Ruth

[Questor]

To some degree Yeshua does have to be looked upon as a reformer...coming to pull the Jews back to the as written being above all other laws or traditions, and indeed that traditions were useful, but not what YHVH had commanded.

Then Yeshua turned his attention to how the was to be carried out, as written, in order that the fullness of YHVH's love would be adopted by all Believers, and cause those Believers to walk in the as not only an example of loving one another as oneself, but as a proof of our love of YHVH, and of Yeshua.

The way of the original Nazarene's was regarded as another branch or sect of Judaism, since the was kept, if not always in the Pharisaical way, but Yeshua did not come to establish a sect, but to renew the Judaism in existence with the action of obedience in love...love to YHVH, to Yeshua, and to other Believers, and to teach how He was going to make all those that believed in and trusted Him enabled through the Ruach to keep the from the heart, and not merely because of custom and tradition.  That enablement in the Ruach is only provided by His substitutionary death.

[alon]

From the Free Dictionary Online:

sect (sĕkt) n.

1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.

2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.

3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.

By definition, as soon as He departed from any part of Hebraic religious thought, and gained followers, Yeshua led His own sect. So, simple semantics says- the title of this thread is self evident, "Yeshua is Leader of His Own Sect."

The only real question is, which sect are we members of?

Dan C

[Deleted]

I truly do not believe that it was Yeshua's doing to create another sect of His own. His purpose was to bring people back to God with ALL of their hearts. To have God living within their hearts. He did not come to create another sect or religion. He came to draw ALL men to God.

Also Yeshua was neither a reformer, charismatic, Pentecostal, etc. He was and is fully God.

Moriah Ruth

[alon]

Feb 24, 2014 6:24:47 GMT -8 @moriahruth7 said:

I truly do not believe that it was Yeshua's doing to create another sect of His own. His purpose was to bring people back to God with ALL of their hearts. To have God living within their hearts. He did not come to create another sect or religion. He came to draw ALL men to God.

Also Yeshua was neither a reformer, charismatic, Pentecostal, etc. He was and is fully God.

Moriah Ruth

Yes, but none of that disqualifies Him as leader of a sect. Until 65 CE, the followers of Yeshua were considered by the Jews to be just another sect of Judaism. That doesn't change His message, His intent, His divinity, nor anything else. It just means there was a definable group of Jews (and Gentiles) who followed His teachings.

Dan C

[Deleted]

If you are looking at this on an earthly level, than yes I can see this. And yes the Pharisees and leaders of Yeshua's day would have thought that He was starting a new sect. So yes I can see this part.

However. The point that I am making is that Yeshua never came to earth to start a new sect or new religion.

He came to draw men's hearts back to His Father. This is the spiritual level. I go much deeper than the earthly level.

Moriah Ruth