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Post by messianicmama on Mar 28, 2013 20:42:57 GMT -8
Is it wrong, only wrong for leaders or just another option? I have heard of some fringe Messianics getting into it. What do you think?
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Post by alon on Mar 29, 2013 10:19:07 GMT -8
I think God called men to be leaders, and to give that up for the "privilege" of having two or more wives would be sin. We may not be leaders of anything great, but each one of us is called to be a leader in his home, and to stand and be counted in his church and community.
We also have only to look at the trouble this practice caused in Biblical families to see it is not the wonderful thing many men might think it is. Take the story of Jacob. He had four families to contend with as a result of the rivalry between his two wives. He lost his favored son because his other sons conspired to kill him. It was only by the grace of God they were reunited years later. Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem like it could have been a happy family life for anyone.
Just because it was practiced by Biblical figures doesn't mean it was good or even sanctioned by God. I never recall God saying plural marriage was OK.
Men are called to leadership, and leaders are called to service above all else. Part of being a leader in the home is to recognize that women have their own calling, their own need to run their own household. They cannot be happy sharing a home (or a husband). And in the words of that astute theologian Queen Latifa, "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!"
Dan (not very PC) C
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Post by messianicmama on Mar 29, 2013 16:33:07 GMT -8
Hmm. Well from my recollection it was never forbidden. Leaders were told to be men of one wife by Paul (I think) but the  is silent on it. I've heard some Messianics use the passage that says "Seven women will take ahold of one man" to say that in the end the righteous will go to that sort of system. Personally, I think it would be difficult and only a few could actually do it and make it work. I think that there are rough patches in any familial relationship and I'm sure there are pros and cons on both sides. I would think that if Gd really hated it he would have said something considering all of the people who had plural marriages. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, Elkanah, and I'm sure others. |
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Isha
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Post by Isha on Mar 29, 2013 22:33:57 GMT -8
My husband is considering plural marriage, and I'm struggling, I have seen all the evidence in the Scripture.
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Post by Yedidyah on Mar 30, 2013 8:26:50 GMT -8
Shabbat Shalom!
I will be adding a more in depth article about this later but wanted to address this briefly right now.
First of all if you are looking at the evidence in the scripture and still think this is ok you have to remove the filters first.
So I have seen the comment that it is not addressed specific as being wrong but what about a women having multiple husbands? That is not address either as being specifically wrong.
Point is that G-D created Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve's.
That was the first perfect marriage then after man fell and sin entered the world we see plural wives. This was never Hashems plan but men's ego's got in the way of a spiritual walk and let it become corrupted by their own desires. I want to be clear on this subject I am in no way condoning plural marriage, it is sexual immorality and should be treated as such.
Yedidyah
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Post by messianicmama on Mar 30, 2013 8:44:10 GMT -8
My husband is considering plural marriage, and I'm struggling, I have seen all the evidence in the Scripture. I think that if this is something he is considering, it should be something both of you are in agreement on. It doesn't sound like you want it. I would speak up if this is the case. |
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Post by alon on Mar 30, 2013 9:32:41 GMT -8
My husband is considering plural marriage, and I'm struggling, I have seen all the evidence in the Scripture. Isha, once the marriage is done it is too late. The time to confront this issue is now. As a married man he shouldn't even be seeing other women, and this is an issue which will greatly effect you and your children. Dan C |
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Post by Yedidyah on Mar 30, 2013 9:47:31 GMT -8
My husband is considering plural marriage, and I'm struggling, I have seen all the evidence in the Scripture. Isha, once the marriage is done it is too late. The time to confront this issue is now. As a married man he shouldn't even be seeing other women, and this is an issue which will greatly effect you and your children. Dan C I agree Dan! The root of the heart in such situations has been addressed by Yeshua, Matthew 5:28 28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. How can a married man who is one with his wife think it is ok or much less acceptable to lust after other women? It is clear such thoughts have already permeated the heart with lust. This is the kind of acts that need to be purged out of the Messianic movement or else it will devour it from the inside out. |
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Post by messianicmama on Mar 30, 2013 9:48:53 GMT -8
My husband is considering plural marriage, and I'm struggling, I have seen all the evidence in the Scripture. Isha, once the marriage is done it is too late. The time to confront this issue is now. As a married man he shouldn't even be seeing other women, and this is an issue which will greatly effect you and your children. Dan C Yes. Talk to him now. I think any decisions involving the marriage should be agreed to by the doses. He shouldn't just make the decision on his own. Pray for him too that he will be given wisdom . |
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Post by alon on Mar 30, 2013 12:56:59 GMT -8
Yedidyah, good points. I wasn't aware until this that it was even a problem amongst Messianics. Agree it should be purged, and the practice denounced.
Mamma, agree about prayer. She and the purging of the practice are on my prayer board now. Thanks.
Dan C
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Post by Micha'el on Mar 30, 2013 20:39:10 GMT -8
Shalom All, This topic is not new. In the Family Life category we already have the topic "Polygamy". It was started back in Aug 2006. I actually found it more interesting than all of the quotes in the "Plural Marriage" subject. You should also check it out. By the way, when looking for based acceptance of a man having "another wife", I see the case where a brother marries his relatives widow. First, if a person is going to quote: DEUT 25:5 If brothers dwell together, and one of them die, and have no son, the wife of the dead shall not be married outside to a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in to her, and take her to him as wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her. This "duty" is to maintain the brothers' name so it will not be blotted out of Yisra'el. What if brothers don't dwell together today? What if there are no brothers? What if the brothers are already married? Should the woman remain a widow? Should she marry someone in the "community" she has joined herself to? I know there is the case of Er whom Adonai killed because he was wicked, then Onan, remember the guy who spilled his seed cause he didn't want his brother to be credited for his seed? Onan was also killed by Adonai, his actions were evil in the sight of Adonai. Unfortunate to be Tamar. Micha'el |
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Post by messianicmama on Mar 30, 2013 20:50:14 GMT -8
And I want to add that Biblically we were not selecting spouses based on romantic love or sexual attraction. That's a modern/secular thing. It is possible to meet a woman who is godly and single and to decide to marry her without dating, kissing or being in love with her. A man doesn't have to break his vows to take a second wife.
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Isha
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Post by Isha on Mar 30, 2013 21:01:56 GMT -8
Shalom, something that I learnt while studying is that the definition of adultery is having relations with another married woman, that changes things completely, also if you do have relations with a unmarried woman then the explains what must be done, you must go and pay the bridal price if her father agrees and she will become your wife, also all of the (laws) are in relation to Isreal only not anyone else, so marriage out of Isreal seems to be not the norm, and if you do marry a captive woman then you must shave her hair cut her nails allow her 30 days to mourn her past, then marry her. All of this is a huge culture show for me, but I love Isreal I want to be with Abba eternally, and if these are his ways I'm struggling to put down my evil flesh. |
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Post by messianicmama on Mar 30, 2013 21:34:11 GMT -8
Shalom, something that I learnt while studying is that the definition of adultery is having relations with another married woman, that changes things completely, also if you do have relations with a unmarried woman then the explains what must be done, you must go and pay the bridal price if her father agrees and she will become your wife, also all of the (laws) are in relation to Isreal only not anyone else, so marriage out of Isreal seems to be not the norm, and if you do marry a captive woman then you must shave her hair cut her nails allow her 30 days to mourn her past, then marry her. All of this is a huge culture show for me, but I love Isreal I want to be with Abba eternally, and if these are his ways I'm struggling to put down my evil flesh. I agree with what you said, but your husband- if he is observant- is to love you as Messiah loves his people and willing even to lay down his life for you. If you believe that a plural marriage would damage your family, you need to speak up. I think under the right circumstances it could work but it's a big undertaking. I don't believe that is the preferred way, Biblically, but I can understand instances where it could be usefully even necessary. I know a woman whose husband left her for another woman. She had a large family and no way of supporting them. Her messianic congregation turned their backs on her. My husband and I contemplated the idea of bringing her into our family. I was more in favor of it than he was, but neither of us was convinced, and we never asked her or anything. At any rate, that was a scenario in which I would find it admirable and not scandalous. |
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Post by Yedidyah on Mar 30, 2013 22:10:22 GMT -8
Shalom, something that I learnt while studying is that the definition of adultery is having relations with another married woman, that changes things completely, also if you do have relations with a unmarried woman then the explains what must be done, you must go and pay the bridal price if her father agrees and she will become your wife, also all of the (laws) are in relation to Isreal only not anyone else, so marriage out of Isreal seems to be not the norm, and if you do marry a captive woman then you must shave her hair cut her nails allow her 30 days to mourn her past, then marry her. All of this is a huge culture show for me, but I love Isreal I want to be with Abba eternally, and if these are his ways I'm struggling to put down my evil flesh. Why is this an issue that people would be trying to seek out for their personal lives? Show me where it is commanded in to have more than one wife? It is not a mitzvot so what is the flesh trying to uphold? There was times in scripture where Hashem allowed something but to try to pervert it into condoning is simply wrong. There are lots of things that are given as an example but that does not mean it was for us to follow. Look at the fruit of all the extra wives of concubines. It is still plaguing Israel to this day just look at the descendants of Yishma'el. It was against the promise and against what a G-d centered marriage is meant to look like. Let me ask you this why is your husband wanting more wives? Why do you think you have to condone such? Why does he feel the need to do something that is not commanded or looked at in a positive light within the ? There is nothing that shows this to be a good thing and the fruit shows the truth in such. |
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