|
|
Post by gjs456 on Mar 9, 2013 15:45:53 GMT -8
(3:20) But to you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings (kanaph); and you will break out leaping, like calves released from the stall. (Mal 4:2 CJB) In this verse, שׁמשׁ (H8121 shemesh) is translated in every translation I checked as "Sun." Yet would not this be how we would also spell Shemash or "Servant?" How would we know whether the Sun of Righteousness would rise or the Servant of Righteousness (My Righteous Servant, Isaiah 53:11) would rise? Also, could Malachi be making a comparison to (or maybe preferably a contrast with) the pagan sun gods of the day which were pictured as rising on wings? (see for example en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_sun) Instead of a winged sun of unrighteousness used in Egyptian magic, they were to anticipate a Servant of Righteousness who would heal them with Power from on high. And if so, could this also be an expectation of a Messiah that was divine? Shabbat Shalom George --------------------- Strongs H8121 שׁמשׁ shemesh sheh'-mesh From an unused root meaning to be brilliant; the sun; by implication the east; figuratively a ray, that is, (architecturally) a notched battlement: - + east side (-ward), sun ([rising]), + west (-ward), window. See also H1053. Strongs H8120 שׁמשׁ shemash shem-ash' (Chaldee); corresponding to the root of H8121 through the idea of activity implied in daylight; to serve: - minister. Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions שׁמשׁ 1. (Pael) to minister, serve Origin: corresponding to the root of H8121 through the idea of activity implied in day-light TWOT: 3042 Parts of Speech: Verb lovewins.us/bible/strongs/H8120It is interesting also how one of the Corresponding Greek Words (G2323) for shemash occurs in the Apostolic Scriptures 42 times as a form of either heal or cure. It seems interpret to wait upon menially as worship, does this imply that to be a servan, whether to HaShem or to our peers, is a form of worship, true religion and undefiled before HaShem is to be a servant? G2323 θεραπεύω therapeuō ther-ap-yoo'-o From the same as G2324; to wait upon menially, that is, (figuratively) to adore (God), or (specifically) to relieve (of disease): - cure, heal, worship. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Mar 9, 2013 16:08:16 GMT -8
Interesting. Reading from my NAS that could make sense. It says "sun of righteousness". Easily replaced by "servant of righteousness" and, without commenting on the accuracy, it would make sense linguistically. From my TNK: Mal 3:19-20, "For lo! That day is at hand, burning like an oven. All the arrogant and all the doers of evil shall be straw, and the day is coming- said the Lord of Hosts- shall burn them to ashes and leave them neither stock nor boughs. But for you who revere My name a sun of victory shall rise to bring healing. You shall go forth and stamp like stall fed calves, ..." alt: "But for you who revere My name a servant of victory shall rise to bring healing." Not so much, but maybe ...  I think I'll wait for the Rabbi to answer this one! Dan C |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 7:44:11 GMT -8
(3:20) But to you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings (kanaph); and you will break out leaping, like calves released from the stall. (Mal 4:2 CJB) In this verse, שׁמשׁ (H8121 shemesh) is translated in every translation I checked as "Sun." Yet would not this be how we would also spell Shemash or "Servant?" How would we know whether the Sun of Righteousness would rise or the Servant of Righteousness (My Righteous Servant, Isaiah 53:11) would rise? Also, could Malachi be making a comparison to (or maybe preferably a contrast with) the pagan sun gods of the day which were pictured as rising on wings? (see for example en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_sun) Instead of a winged sun of unrighteousness used in Egyptian magic, they were to anticipate a Servant of Righteousness who would heal them with Power from on high. And if so, could this also be an expectation of a Messiah that was divine? Shabbat Shalom George --------------------- Strongs H8121 שׁמשׁ shemesh sheh'-mesh From an unused root meaning to be brilliant; the sun; by implication the east; figuratively a ray, that is, (architecturally) a notched battlement: - + east side (-ward), sun ([rising]), + west (-ward), window. See also H1053. Strongs H8120 שׁמשׁ shemash shem-ash' (Chaldee); corresponding to the root of H8121 through the idea of activity implied in daylight; to serve: - minister. Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions שׁמשׁ 1. (Pael) to minister, serve Origin: corresponding to the root of H8121 through the idea of activity implied in day-light TWOT: 3042 Parts of Speech: Verb lovewins.us/bible/strongs/H8120It is interesting also how one of the Corresponding Greek Words (G2323) for shemash occurs in the Apostolic Scriptures 42 times as a form of either heal or cure. It seems interpret to wait upon menially as worship, does this imply that to be a servan, whether to HaShem or to our peers, is a form of worship, true religion and undefiled before HaShem is to be a servant? G2323 θεραπεύω therapeuō ther-ap-yoo'-o From the same as G2324; to wait upon menially, that is, (figuratively) to adore (God), or (specifically) to relieve (of disease): - cure, heal, worship. Hello, i take it to be a wonderful image of the glory in which the Lord will accomplish these things. Shabbat shalom. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 8, 2014 14:22:11 GMT -8
Hello, i take it to be a wonderful image of the glory in which the Lord will accomplish these things. Shabbat shalom. I always say, "The truth is the truth, regardless ..." |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 16:56:35 GMT -8
Hello, i take it to be a wonderful image of the glory in which the Lord will accomplish these things. Shabbat shalom. I always say, "The truth is the truth, regardless ..." Indeed Dan, I'm glad we're jamming at last. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 8, 2014 18:55:54 GMT -8
I always say, "The truth is the truth, regardless ..." Indeed Dan, I'm glad we're jamming at last. bongo, I am all abot the truth. Speak the truth and we have no problem. Disagree, but based on solid biblical teaching and we have no problem. Even your feelings are valid, if stated within the bounds of good hermeneutical practice. But pulling one fact out (God is love), taking it way out of context and saying all scripture that doesn't make you just feel good about a loving god is wrong, and I'll call it that. Ever since somewhere after the Maccabean revolt, when the TNK was codified and "canonized" by the Pharisees, scripture is ... same with the canonized B'rit Chadasha- it just is. I may think some of it is translated wrong or even tampered with, but I am constrained to arguing these things in the context of the fact it is what it is. I will not set myself to do what I am so angry with others over the last two millennia for doing- I am not the latest redactor of the Word! Neither should you be, and I say that out of genuine concern for you (believe that or not- it too just is!), as well as myself and others here. Revelation 22:18-19 says, "For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." This is not the only warning in either the TNK or the B'rit Chadasha, only the last. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 9, 2014 5:55:21 GMT -8
That warning oddly enough was one of the things that convinced me that someone elses hand at play. It's a warning that is so monumental in Consequences but so vague in details, that it causes panic on occasion if you believe it. I too once thought that it referred to the whole Bible. So much in that last book is full of holes, and doesn't hold up to scrutiny next to the Law or other scripture. Even what Yeshua taught shows this book to be erroneous in nature. Now on the subject of 'God is Love'. I ate at a soup kitchen for years where the sign on the wall said 'God is Love'. This is only part of the truth. It is not even written so in scripture. God is Good is what i try to tell people, that only God Most High alone is good. So now i get your comments on touchy feely convenient wishy washyness. Not true , i try never to be wishy washy, because who I preach is never wishy washy, and his son who He sent to show us how to live was never so either. Then get specific; back up your comments with more than your feelings. I too have feelings, but whenever I choose to burden you with them I am careful to label it as such. Same with opinion which, really, tells you more about how I see God than who God really is. But I try not to do too much of either, as I doubt anyone really cares that much. |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 10, 2014 14:34:11 GMT -8
bongo, I am all abot the truth. Speak the truth and we have no problem. Disagree, but based on solid biblical teaching and we have no problem. Even your feelings are valid, if stated within the bounds of good hermeneutical practice. But pulling one fact out (God is love), taking it way out of context and saying all scripture that doesn't make you just feel good about a loving god is wrong, and I'll call it that. Ever since somewhere after the Maccabean revolt, when the TNK was codified and "canonized" by the Pharisees, scripture is ... same with the canonized B'rit Chadasha- it just is. I may think some of it is translated wrong or even tampered with, but I am constrained to arguing these things in the context of the fact it is what it is. I will not set myself to do what I am so angry with others over the last two millennia for doing- I am not the latest redactor of the Word! Neither should you be, and I say that out of genuine concern for you (believe that or not- it too just is!), as well as myself and others here. Revelation 22:18-19 says, "For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." This is not the only warning in either the TNK or the B'rit Chadasha, only the last. That warning oddly enough was one of the things that convinced me that someone elses hand at play. It's a warning that is so monumental in Consequences but so vague in details, that it causes panic on occasion if you believe it.
The warnings in the Scriptures from first to last is that these writings are sacred, and not to be tampered with...not to take away from them, or add to them, on pain of being written out of the Book of Life. You object to being threatened by the intrinsic Writer of the Scriptures...the Ruach haKodesh?
You should be panicking...you are tampering with the scriptures, and are saying, "I will accept this, and not that," then expect Abba to be pleased with you?I too once thought that it referred to the whole Bible. So much in that last book is full of holes, and doesn't hold up to scrutiny next to the Law or other scripture. Even what Yeshua taught shows this book to be erroneous in nature.
Making statements of your opinions without supporting them by the relevant proofs make your statements sound like a childish complaint...that you don't like what is there, so you won't believe it!, particularly to those who have made long study of the Scriptures, make us look at what you write, and discount it as a valid argument.
Support your opinions on your criticism of Scripture with Scripture, or stop sharing them with us, and those who read this site, lest you lead people astray. Now on the subject of 'God is Love'. I ate at a soup kitchen for years where the sign on the wall said 'God is Love'. This is only part of the truth. It is not even written so in scripture. God is Good is what i try to tell people, that only God Most High alone is good. So now i get your comments on touchy feely convenient wishy washyness. Not true , i try never to be wishy washy, because who I preach is never wishy washy, and his son who He sent to show us how to live was never so either.
Every man has freedom of conscience, and you are free to believe what you like. Teaching against the Scriptures however, or teaching only a part of the entire Scripture to lead others to follow your opinons and beliefs that run counter to the Scriptures is, from a Scriptural point of view, teaching a lie. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 10, 2014 16:06:56 GMT -8
Look if you can't even see one of the things i'm talking about then you aren't as wise as i thought. If you continue with this dogma i can't help you. This is just the last warning, as I told you before. There are others, some given lo-o-ong before the book of Revelation was given: Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar. Prov 30:5,6
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deut 4:2
You could take any warning given and say it was only meant for that book, or the time, place and people there when it was written. But even if that were true, let's go back to Rev 22 and the warning there. You have denounced the entire book of Revelation as being too violent, too angry and judgmental, not loving enough- a nightmare, I think you called it. So yu'd be guilty right there. Again, for your own sake, you need to listen to Questor instead of trying to "help him." You cannot delete scripture merely at your whim. Not a vendetta, just the truth. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 18:11:10 GMT -8
Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar. Prov 30:5,6
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deut 4:2
Unfortunately some have.
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 10, 2014 21:24:29 GMT -8
Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar. Prov 30:5,6 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deut 4:2 Unfortunately some have.Absolutely! And we should look for those places, and be able to back up our suspicions with other scripture, historical and cultural facts. But do you want to be guilty of the same thing you are so angry with them about? The act of changing the Bible to suit you? It is what it is, and knowing I serve the Creator, the Mighty One, the One who is able to preserve His Word as He wants. I don't know why He allowed the B'rit Chadasha to be translated into koine Greek and all Hebrew documents lost. Or why He didn't thunderbolt those who messed around with scriptures. Just a thought here, but you should be very happy He doesn't do that ... just sayin' ... . And not getting at you either, as I can think of many occasions when I should have been lightnin' struck. (I've actually come REAL close, and I wasn't even sinnin' at the time ... but that's another story.) But God is merciful and He spared us both. And the Bible is what it is. Doesn't mean I won't use my brain and come to some conclusions about particular scriptures- BUT I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANY OF THEM- even so much as to draw lines through them or change words. All my suspicions and conclusions are written in the margins, in pencil. I suggest you take the same attitude, as He will not, as you pointed out, spare the guilty. Rom 2:4 Or perhaps you despise the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience; because you don't realize that God's kindness is intended to lead you to turn from your sins.
1 Pet 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago, in the days of Noach, when God waited patiently during the building of the ark, in which a few people - to be specific, eight - were delivered by means of water. God wants us to repent and seek His truth, and He shows us mercy. But that mercy won't last forever unless we change our ways. |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 11, 2014 17:28:08 GMT -8
Alon said: Absolutely! And we should look for those places, and be able to back up our suspicions with other scripture, historical and cultural facts. Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3054/sun-righteousness-mal-2-4?page=1&scrollTo=16871#ixzz34LhekIQOI would certainly thank the Lord for showing me what is right from wrong, and for not quoting what is false, simply because it is 'in the bible'. And anyway i put my argument for scripture across with knowledge of scripture. I shall even include the chapter for you Dan.
Once having said anything in the Scriptures is false, you have discredited the remainder of the Scriptures as a thing only of man, and therefore suspect.
The Scriptures in the Tanakh and the Brit Chadashah were written under direct inspiration of the Ruach. Throwing out parts of the Scripture is therefore blasphemy against the Holy Spirit...you are calling the Ruach haKodesh a liar. That is the only unforgivable sin, and it sounds like you are committing it.
Matthew 12:30-37 (CJB)
30 “Those who are not with me are against me, and those who do not gather with me are scattering.
31 Because of this, I tell you that people will be forgiven any sin and blasphemy, but blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh will not be forgiven.
32 One can say something against the Son of Man and be forgiven; but whoever keeps on speaking against the Ruach HaKodesh will never be forgiven, neither in the ‘olam hazeh nor in the ‘olam haba.
33 “If you make a tree good, its fruit will be good; and if you make a tree bad, its fruit will be bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
34 You snakes! How can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what overflows from the heart.
35 The good person brings forth good things from his store of good, and the evil person brings forth evil things from his store of evil.
36 Moreover, I tell you this: on the Day of Judgment people will have to give account for every careless word they have spoken;
37 for by your own words you will be acquitted, and by your own words you will be condemned.” . |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 12, 2014 22:07:04 GMT -8
I'm not calling Adonai anything but good. It is you, by insisting he said the things that you insist he said, that does err. I've suffered much for the Lord. And he has shown me much. Are you really telling me you can't even bring yourself to admit you can't see anything of what i'm saying?
There are warnings throughout the Scriptures not to do what you are doing...to come to a seperate understanding of the Scriptures based not on what Scripture says, and other Scriptures relate to and correspond with, but upon your personal understanding, and opinion.
No understanding of Scripture is of private interpretation!
The Scriptures cannot be teased apart and decided upon line by line based on anyone's personal taste, opinion, or understanding. Scripture stands or falls as a whole, or it would not be inspired by the Ruach ha Kodesh in the first place.
When you toss out a portion of Scripture for any reason except that other Scriptures do not support it, you are slapping the Ruach haKodesh in the face, and saying to Him, "You, Holy One, are not powerful enough to make sure that the Scriptures I am reading are supported by other Scriptures, and therefore I am free to discount anything I wish based on my far more accurate understanding of these matters." That is Blasphemy...putting your opinion or understanding above that of the Ruach HaKodesh...the Holy Spirit of YHVH!
I understand what you believe. You are saying that Yehoshua only appeared to the Apostles in some spiritual way, and only in Gallilee. Your statement is not Scripturally based, as the Scriptures below prove.
Matthew 28:8-10 (CJB)
8 So they left the tomb quickly, frightened yet filled with joy; and they ran to give the news to his talmidim.
9 Suddenly Yeshua met them and said, “Shalom!” They came up and took hold of his feet as they fell down in front of him.
10 Then Yeshua said to them, “Don’t be afraid! Go and tell my brothers to go to the Galil, and they will see me there.”
Luke 24:28-31 (CJB)
28 They approached the village where they were going. He made as if he were going on farther;
29 but they held him back, saying, “Stay with us, for it’s almost evening, and it’s getting dark.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 As he was reclining with them at the table, he took the matzah, made the b’rakhah, broke it and handed it to them.
31 Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. But he became invisible to them.
Luke 24:36-53 (CJB)
36 They were still talking about it when — there he was, standing among them!
37 Startled and terrified, they thought they were seeing a ghost.
38 But he said to them, “Why are you so upset? Why are these doubts welling up inside you?
39 Look at my hands and my feet — it is I, myself! Touch me and see — a ghost doesn’t have flesh and bones, as you can see I do.”
40 As he said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
41 While they were still unable to believe it for joy and stood there dumbfounded, he said to them, “Have you something here to eat?”
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 which he took and ate in their presence.
John 20:14-18 (CJB)
14 As she said this, she turned around and saw Yeshua standing there, but she didn’t know it was he.
15 Yeshua said to her, “Lady, why are you crying? Whom are you looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you’re the one who carried him away, just tell me where you put him; and I’ll go and get him myself.”
16 Yeshua said to her, “Miryam!” Turning, she cried out to him in Hebrew, “Rabbani!” (that is, “Teacher!”)
17 “Stop holding onto me,” Yeshua said to her, “because I haven’t yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers, and tell them that I am going back to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
18 Miryam of Magdala went to the talmidim with the news that she had seen the Lord and that he had told her this.
John 20:24-29 (CJB)
24 Now T’oma (the name means “twin”), one of the Twelve, was not with them when Yeshua came.
25 When the other talmidim told him, “We have seen the Lord,” he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into the place where the nails were and put my hand into his side, I refuse to believe it.”
26 A week later his talmidim were once more in the room, and this time T’oma was with them. Although the doors were locked, Yeshua came, stood among them and said, “Shalom aleikhem!”
27 Then he said to T’oma, “Put your finger here, look at my hands, take your hand and put it into my side. Don’t be lacking in trust, but have trust!”
28 T’oma answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Mark was not one of the Apostles, and he was not present to see anything at that time that we know of. He was a young relative of Barnabas, and wrote down the information he was able to collect from those who had seen, and heard, and touched Yehoshua.
Matthew and John were present to hear what Mary of Magdala said, and to hear, see and touch Yehoshua themselves, and they report things very differently than Mark because they report more than one occasion of contact with Yehoshua in different places, and by different people.
Luke does the same, as he did very careful reporting from his investigation into the matter when he came with Paul to Jerusalem, and had contact with everyone available.
Mark is not a bad reporter...simply not reporting information from everyone involved, and in the disputed lines of Mark 16:9-20, only summarizing what is said elsewhere. It may be added onto the original gospel of Mark, but it merely says what other reporters say, and could have been added by Mark, or badly copied by others making transcriptions.
The only reason the lines are disputed is not because of their content, but because of their absence in other copies of the same gospel. But they are backed by other Scriptures, and so are allowed in the Gospel of Mark...with the notation that those verses were not in all copies of the Gospel of Mark.
You say that you love Adonai and that you have salvation in Yehoshua. Then you say you do not believe all of the Scriptures that were inspired, and guarded for over 19 centuries by the Ruach haKodesh for us to read today, that bear witness of YHVH and of Yehoshua. Effectively, you are throwing the Scriptures back into G-d's face, which is why I must reject what you are saying, and must advise you not to teach it, nor write about it. If others believe what you say, even here on this forum, you will have endangered their souls...and this is why I am speaking so strongly about it. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 12, 2014 22:55:10 GMT -8
bongo, you asked me a little over a week ago what I thought would happen while I was gone. But this is what I hoped would happen- that someone else would have the guts to step up and tell you the same thing. So it isn't just me that sees it. I'm not going to ask you to listen again, because you won't (my opinion). Frankly, I think you like your "hippie-dippy vagabond saint" image to much to listen to us. That is your religion, and a satanic perversion of "love" is your god. Now that's just the plain-up simple truth.
Yes, God is love. But God is also anger (Isaiah 30:27,28); He is fury (Ezekiel 25:17); He brings sickness for His own purposes (John 9:2-3) and as punishment (1Co 11:30, Heb 12); He killed all humanity but Noah and his family (Gen 7:21-23); Sodom and Gomorrah, claiming the Promised Land, His many judgments on Israel, all the way to the cleansing of the Temple and the prophesies of Daniel and Revelation- the Bible is FULL of the anger of God and terrible consequences of that anger. Remove it, and you not only throw out most of the Bible, but you pervert the nature of God. We can make Him angry, and we need to know that. And we need to know there are consequences.
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 13, 2014 3:50:14 GMT -8
I've been beaten up , persecuted ... Oddly enough, I believe you. It's the picture you've painted for us here. |
|
- there are 70 faces to 
