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Post by davidwiseman on Apr 29, 2010 13:52:46 GMT -8
Yes, that is a chiastic pattern.
You said you have more than enough on your hands trying to communicate your own ideas, without trying to learn Greek and Hebrew in addition. This is one problem I have with sermons in most of Protestant Christianity. Whereas in Christian Orthodoxy and in Judaism we read the Scriptures and then have a brief homily on them, in Christianity we have a long sermon only using scripture for proof texts (a purpose for which it was never intended to begin with). That puts the focus on the wrong thing.
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Post by jimmie on Apr 30, 2010 9:12:39 GMT -8
You said you have more than enough on your hands trying to communicate your own ideas, without trying to learn Greek and Hebrew in addition. David, This is what I meant about not being able to get my concern’s/ideas across. What my words said to you is not even in the ball park of what I was trying to communicate. Which has happened several times on this thread. The reason I quote scripture is because it does a better job of expressing what is in my heart, things that I can’t get into words. At least not words that can be understood by others. If I may draw upon scripture for an analogy of how I feel. I Sam: 17:39 And David girded his sword upon his armour, and he assayed to go; for he had not proved it. And David said unto Saul, I cannot go with these; for I have not proved them. And David put them off him. With my KJV, I am somewhat useful. When strapped with Greek, Aromatic, and Hebrew, I am totally useless. It took me two hours last night to prove to myself that the chiastic in Gen. 4 in the KJV existed in the Hebrew text. Man I sure wouldn’t want to try to use Hebrew to convince someone of something. It just doesn’t fit. But, if the “armour” fits you, by all means use it. Maybe someday, I will be able to “prove” it myself. Jimmie |
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Post by davidwiseman on Apr 30, 2010 12:49:11 GMT -8
You said you have more than enough on your hands trying to communicate your own ideas, without trying to learn Greek and Hebrew in addition. David, This is what I meant about not being able to get my concern’s/ideas across. What my words said to you is not even in the ball park of what I was trying to communicate. Which has happened several times on this thread. The reason I quote scripture is because it does a better job of expressing what is in my heart, things that I can’t get into words. At least not words that can be understood by others. If I may draw upon scripture for an analogy of how I feel. I Sam: 17:39 And David girded his sword upon his armour, and he assayed to go; for he had not proved it. And David said unto Saul, I cannot go with these; for I have not proved them. And David put them off him. With my KJV, I am somewhat useful. When strapped with Greek, Aromatic, and Hebrew, I am totally useless. It took me two hours last night to prove to myself that the chiastic in Gen. 4 in the KJV existed in the Hebrew text. Man I sure wouldn’t want to try to use Hebrew to convince someone of something. It just doesn’t fit. But, if the “armour” fits you, by all means use it. Maybe someday, I will be able to “prove” it myself. Jimmie I wouldn't expect you to begin right away trying to use Hebrew and Greek to prove anything. I started studying Hebrew in junior high and only began to be able to use it effectively my senior year in highschool. There is certainly a long time when you will rely heavily on translations, but learning the other languages will prove well worth the effort. |
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lou
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Post by lou on Sept 11, 2015 12:43:12 GMT -8
What are the veiws of you all here on Notariqon?
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 11, 2015 13:13:16 GMT -8
What are the veiws of you all here on Notariqon? I am unfamiliar with that so I will just sit back and learn.  |
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Post by alon on Sept 11, 2015 13:17:45 GMT -8
What are the veiws of you all here on Notariqon?
Dan C |
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lou
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Post by lou on Sept 11, 2015 16:38:07 GMT -8
Heaven Scent Church of Disciples Public 28 weeks ago Notariqon is a form of Jewish Kabbalistic study of Hebrew words and letters.Of Notariqon there are two forms. In the first every letter of a word is taken for the initial or abbreviation of another word, so that from the letters of a word a sentence may be formed. Thus every letter of the word BRAShIT, Berashit, the first word in Genesis, is made the initial of a word, and we obtain BRAShIT RAH ALHIM ShIQBLV IShRAL TVRH, Besrashit Rahi Eloim Sheyequebelo Israel  : "In the beginning the Elohim saw that Israel would accept the law." In this connection I may give six very interesting specimens of Notariqon formed from this same word BRAShIT by Solomon Meir Ben Moses, a Jewish Kabbalist, who embraced the Messianic faith in 1665, and took the name of Prosper Rugers. These have all a Messianic tendency, and by their means Prosper converted another Jew, who had previously been bitterly opposed to Messianism. The first is BN RVCh AB ShLVShTM IChD TMIM Ben, Ruach, Ab, Shaloshetem Yechad Temim "The Son, the Spirit, the Father, Their Trinity, Perfect Unity." The second is, BN RVCh AB ShLVShTM IChD TOBVDV, Ben, Ruach, Ab, Shaloshetem Yechad Taubodo "The Son, the Spirit, the Father, ye shall equally worship Their Trinity." The third is, BKVRI RAShVNI AShR ShMV IShVO TOBVDV, Bekori Rashuni Asher Shamo Yeshuah Taubodo: "Ye shall worship My first−born, My first, Whose Name is Yeshua". The fourth is, BBVA RBN AShR ShMV IShVO TOBVDV, Beboa Rabban Asher Shamo Yesuah Taubodo: "When the Master shall come Whose Name is Yeshua ye shall worship." The fifth is, BALMH RAVIH ABChR ShThLD IShVO TaShRVH, B'almah Raviah Abachar Shetaled Yeshuah Trashroah: "I will choose a maiden worthy to bring forth Yeshua and ye shall call her blessed." The sixth is, BOVGT RTzPIM AShTTR ShGVPI IShVO TAKLV, Beaugot Ratzephim Assattar Shegopi Yeshuah Tekelo: "I will hide myself in cake (baked with) coals, for ye shall eat Yeshua, My Body." The Kabbalistical importance of these sentences as bearing upon the doctrines of Christianity and Messianism can hardly be overrated. |
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lou
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Post by lou on Sept 11, 2015 16:40:40 GMT -8
This article was posted by: Rabbi Thomas Cohen. Was my mentor till I shied away from zohar teaching. Still the numbers n words have such deep meaning.
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lou
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Post by lou on Sept 11, 2015 18:31:30 GMT -8
For example, the word chen, "grace," spelled in Hebrew ChN, and then treated as notariqon form chokmah nistorah, "secret wisdom." Whenever the refers to grace, the Kabbalists claim that the secret wisdom of the Kabbalah is being discussed. Be careful when looking into these teachings. Use discernment always. |
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Post by alon on Sept 11, 2015 22:05:55 GMT -8
Heaven Scent Church of Disciples Public 28 weeks ago Notariqon is a form of Jewish Kabbalistic study of Hebrew words and letters.Of Notariqon there are two forms. In the first every letter of a word is taken for the initial or abbreviation of another word, so that from the letters of a word a sentence may be formed. Thus every letter of the word BRAShIT, Berashit, the first word in Genesis, is made the initial of a word, and we obtain BRAShIT RAH ALHIM ShIQBLV IShRAL TVRH, Besrashit Rahi Eloim Sheyequebelo Israel : "In the beginning the Elohim saw that Israel would accept the law." In this connection I may give six very interesting specimens of Notariqon formed from this same word BRAShIT by Solomon Meir Ben Moses, a Jewish Kabbalist, who embraced the Messianic faith in 1665, and took the name of Prosper Rugers. These have all a Messianic tendency, and by their means Prosper converted another Jew, who had previously been bitterly opposed to Messianism. The first is BN RVCh AB ShLVShTM IChD TMIM Ben, Ruach, Ab, Shaloshetem Yechad Temim "The Son, the Spirit, the Father, Their Trinity, Perfect Unity." The second is, BN RVCh AB ShLVShTM IChD TOBVDV, Ben, Ruach, Ab, Shaloshetem Yechad Taubodo "The Son, the Spirit, the Father, ye shall equally worship Their Trinity." The third is, BKVRI RAShVNI AShR ShMV IShVO TOBVDV, Bekori Rashuni Asher Shamo Yeshuah Taubodo: "Ye shall worship My first−born, My first, Whose Name is Yeshua". The fourth is, BBVA RBN AShR ShMV IShVO TOBVDV, Beboa Rabban Asher Shamo Yesuah Taubodo: "When the Master shall come Whose Name is Yeshua ye shall worship." The fifth is, BALMH RAVIH ABChR ShThLD IShVO TaShRVH, B'almah Raviah Abachar Shetaled Yeshuah Trashroah: "I will choose a maiden worthy to bring forth Yeshua and ye shall call her blessed." The sixth is, BOVGT RTzPIM AShTTR ShGVPI IShVO TAKLV, Beaugot Ratzephim Assattar Shegopi Yeshuah Tekelo: "I will hide myself in cake (baked with) coals, for ye shall eat Yeshua, My Body." The Kabbalistical importance of these sentences as bearing upon the doctrines of Christianity and Messianism can hardly be overrated.
I can see how he might lead another Ultra orthodox Jew to Yeshua using a Kabbalistic method such as this and referencing the Trinity. In the Zohar God is presented as Ten Sefirot, which they believe are ten separate consciences or entities. They are in fact polytheists. So showing him three Gods instead of ten is probably more believable.
A problem I see with this method is that unless there are some other checks in place (and I'd guess there are) a person could come up with almost anything he wanted to say depending on how he chose his words.
To become a true Messianic believer, a Cabbalist would have more to unlearn than the average Christian doing the same thing. The ultra Orthodox are considered strange even amongst other Jews. They have also adopted a few pagan practices to go along with their ten gods; although not as many as the Christians who only have three Gods- unless you count that they also believe in a God of the Old Testament and a God of the New Testament ... ach! Stick with Messianism; it's much simpler!
Dan C |
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lou
Junior Member
married 15 yrs
Posts: 89
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Post by lou on Sept 12, 2015 7:16:48 GMT -8
Great points yet again Dan ty... Simplicity is always best. For now im focusing on the words of Yeshua who interprets so purely. Even Yeshua's words are so deep. |
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