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Post by yeshuafreak on Jul 25, 2009 9:23:12 GMT -8
so you just admitted that it is allowed. now, i think it is alowed tefhnically, but i think that the most righteous way is to have one wife. for example, the law allows as much as an eye for an eye, but no more. Yeshua however, tells us that the most righteous way is to turn the other cheek. however, this is NOT to discuss whether we should practice it, but rather to discuss whether it is technically allowed by  . even if it is, we are still bound by the law of the land as well, and as diciples of the mashiach, we should be taking the higher law anyway. i do not understand your comment however on why it is personally offensive...? can you clarify. i dont think it is creepy at all. it needs to be adressed just like all the other subjects of . it is one of the lighter matters of the law, but it is still part of , so still needs to be discussed, as every yod and every stroke must. shalom- john |
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Post by lawrenceofisrael on Jul 25, 2009 12:29:22 GMT -8
See Mark it is not my or anyone´s intention to insult anyone here. Were´r brothers and sisters in faith and we should dwell in unity. If we confess with out heart the Shema yisrael this unity should not be shattered by our disagreement on such a topic. We should discuss it in a way of respect towards each other and finally we may come to an agreement and even if not. This is not something to seperate us.
We are brothers in faith and nothing should seperate us.
Peace and blessings be upon all of us.
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Post by Rachel on Jul 25, 2009 13:04:30 GMT -8
Adultery is grounds for divorce, correct? If a married man has sex with an available woman and decides to marry her, can his first wife divorce him?
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 14:25:52 GMT -8
Mark,
What do you think a married man who seduces a virgin should do in light of Exodus 22:16-17?
Shabbat Shalom,
brYce
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 14:31:53 GMT -8
Adultery is grounds for divorce, correct? If a married man has sex with an available woman and decides to marry her, can his first wife divorce him? A married man is not guilty of adultery if he takes a second wife and she was a woman legally available to him (not betrothed or married to another man). Please, check out what the Jewish definition of "adultery" is and you will see that it is different than the typical Christian definition. The link below is pretty good: www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Jewish_Approaches/Prohibited_Sexual_Relationships/Adultery.shtml |
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Post by Mark on Jul 25, 2009 15:26:28 GMT -8
Hi Bryce,
Beyong being beaten to a bloody pulp, the man must pay the "bride price" required by the father. The relationship beyond this is up to the father; yet, the man has no right to marry the girl of his own accord.
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
(Exodus 22:16-17 KJV)
It is certainly not a healthy recommendation as a way to establish a harem.
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Post by Mark on Jul 25, 2009 15:27:52 GMT -8
The idea of using these verses as justification for gaining mutliple wives is similar to the suggestion that marajuana is okay because hemp was part of the holy incense.
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 16:06:14 GMT -8
Hi Bryce, Beyong being beaten to a bloody pulp, the man must pay the "bride price" required by the father. The relationship beyond this is up to the father; yet, the man has no right to marry the girl of his own accord. And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. (Exodus 22:16-17 KJV) It is certainly not a healthy recommendation as a way to establish a harem. What if the virgin's father consents to the marriage? |
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Post by Mark on Jul 25, 2009 18:03:27 GMT -8
Then he's a creep. And I think you're grasping.
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 18:29:10 GMT -8
Mark,
What do you believe? Is a man with more than one wife guilty of adultery? If not, then what sin is he guilty of? If he is not guilty of any sin, then what is wrong with having more than one wife?
Shavua tov,
brYce
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Post by Mark on Jul 25, 2009 18:37:22 GMT -8
I believe that a man connot give any more than one woman the love and respect that she deserves and that he is commanded to give her. I believe that states clearly that a man shall leave his mother and woman leave her home and the TWO shall become one flesh. I believe that there are many circumstances where women need to be brought under the care of a household, through death, war, famine, illness. The language of the uses the woman's role in this home with very generic terms. The "wife" (eeshah) is any woman under the man's rersponsibility and care but does not suggest or accomodate the poligamous relationship. |
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 19:14:17 GMT -8
Mark,
So, you will agree that a man with more than one wife isn't guilty of sinning sexually? Please, answer this so I can understand exactly where you stand on this issue.
Thanks,
brYce
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Post by Mark on Jul 25, 2009 19:17:46 GMT -8
I believe that a man with more than one wife is betraying his commitment to her and to God- he is diminishing his duty of marriage toward her and as such, yes, committing sexual sin.
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Post by bryce on Jul 25, 2009 19:27:39 GMT -8
What exactly is his duty towards his wife? He is to provide her food, clothing, and conjugal rights. If a man can do that for more than one woman then how is it wrong?
Exactly which commandment of Hashem is a man breaking? You say it is sexual sin - which sexual sin?
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Post by Mark on Jul 26, 2009 4:50:57 GMT -8
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
(Genesis 2:24 KJV)
If man finds room for another woman then he is not cleaving to his wife and he is adulterating the principle of "one flesh."
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. even if it is, we are still bound by the law of the land as well, and as diciples of the mashiach, we should be taking the higher law anyway.
