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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 22, 2004 17:37:03 GMT -8
Let's start with the observance of Shabbat. Please share how you observe this holy day of YHVH.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 26, 2004 20:25:51 GMT -8
Shabbat Shalom! I hope everybody is having a restful time this Shabbat. What bondage  ...sleeping in, not having to go to work, not having to do laundry, rake your yard, or any of the things that we keep ourselves go, go, going throughout the week...free from the demands of the world...free to spend time with Adonai, with our family, and meeting with like minded people joyfully worshiping YHVH! The observance of YHVH's Shabbat is freedom... "So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. : for I seek thy precepts." Psalm 119:44-45 Reuel |
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jun 30, 2004 6:48:59 GMT -8
Life rarely goes as smooth as I would like. My ideal Sabbath observance begins as the sun sets Friday to spend quiet time in family worship and prayer to welcome the Sabbath. Sabbath morning I rise early to prepare for church. The church I attend meets from about 9:30 - 12:00. Some times I take the family out to dinner to spare the wife the effort to prepare a meal. There are many different activities for a Sabbath afternoon. Any family activity of fellowship and enjoyment is perfect. My favourite is a walk or even a hike in a natural setting like a park or forest preserve. As the sun sets the Sabbath is bid farewell with quiet time in family worship and prayer.
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Post by holdingontoTruth on Aug 3, 2004 21:27:37 GMT -8
Shalom...I am new to these forums. Sabbath observance...what it has become for me. I try to be home early enough to prepare for Shabbat. I clean up and take a shower before it begins. I have, in the last four months or so..., been keeping Shabbat in a stricter manner than I used to. I am basically following Karaite halachah on this issue. this is the standard for me..unless there is an emergency. I no longer light sabbath candles...after learning the reason why this practice was started...as well as how much i hate it when people add to the commandments... i.e. "who has commanded us to kindle the shabbat lights" which was added by the Rabbi's... I refrain from burning anything on Shabbat. I also use no electricity. I use a battery powered lantern for light at night (with flourescent bulb). I ride my bike or walk to fellowship...I am blessed enough to have a small group to meet with in town here. I refrain from any kind of creative work. Apart from that...I pray..usually some traditional Sabbath prayers and psalms... I say Kiddish over a glass of wine or juice... I usually read the  portion and other scriptures before bed...and try to learn something new... IN the day time..I go meet with my local fellowship. We hang out pretty much all day. We have a semi formal Sabbath worship service...with personal prayers to start..then the reading of a Psalm..and traditional prayers in a Messianic Siddur. We say the Shema and then we eat. After we eat we read the scriptures and discuss. The rest of the day..we just hang out and sometimes people dance..go for walks..learn hebrew..etc. being a single guy who lives alone..it is pretty easy for me to keep a strict Shabbat... if I had a wife and kids..it would be harder I'm sure..unless we started that way right at the beginning. It really is all about what you get used to...that becomes the norm..but sometimes its hard if you change later in life. holdingontoTruth |
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Post by azumah on Aug 4, 2004 3:38:40 GMT -8
Welcome, Holdingontotruth.
Sabbath for me is an ever learning feast. I think pretty much everyone I know celebrates it differently.
I was curious, you said you don't light the candles because it is adding to the commandments. Are some of the other things you do such as reading a Psalm, learning Hebrew, saying kiddish over wine or juice, etc. things that we are commanded to do on the Sabbath?
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Post by holdingontoTruth on Aug 4, 2004 21:44:47 GMT -8
Shalom Azumah, Its good to see people are currently active here. I got response pretty fast. Very cool. Let me clarify what I said a bit... I do not light candles...because I don't believe in burning fire on the sabbath. also...the part that is added..is the Rabbinic blessing that I quoted part of. That is what an added commandment. If you study the history of why they made that blessing mandatory...it has to do with their arguments in interpretation of the passage that says "you shall not kindle/burn any flame in any of your dwellings" on the Sabbath. Karaites interpret this word..as 'burn' and thus do not burn any flame at all...and do not use even a previously kindled flame. Rabbi's say its okay to use a previously kindled flame...and just to show their seriousness on this..and their supposed authority to change/add to/or take away from written ..the instituted the blessing that blatantly states that we are commanded to kindle shabbat lights. So...i hope that clarifies. I am not against tradition at all...I like a lot of the rabbinical tradition. I am against stuff that is adding to or taking away from what is written. I would NEVER tell someone they are commanded to do these traditional things on the Sabbath. holdingontoTruth |
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Post by azumah on Aug 5, 2004 4:27:08 GMT -8
Thank you for all that information, Holdingontotruth. I myself am still learning some of these traditions and what they mean. A lot of them I truly do think edify the body of the MESSIAH. Some, however, as you pointed out may lead us away. Perhaps in the future we can start a new thread about the various traditions and how they either edify or cause a stumbling block.
Just out of curiousity, what do you do on the day that Chanakah falls on the Shabbat?
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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Aug 5, 2004 6:57:34 GMT -8
I do much prayer, but I rejoice the whole day long and if I don't study, I will play with my brothers. I do no work like lights or driving, but I fellowship and ejoy myself.
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Post by holdingontoTruth on Aug 5, 2004 21:22:49 GMT -8
Azumah, there is no commandment to light chanukah candles in the scripture...i would not light them on the sabbath. i am looking into the holiday of chunukah as well...the whole candle lighting thing..and so called miracle of the oil..i think is just made up. now..the fight against hellenism and the martyrdom by the Jews who refused to break for the pagan ruler...that stuff is real. holdingontoTruth |
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Post by azumah on Aug 6, 2004 13:50:43 GMT -8
There is actually no commandment to celebrate chanukah in the scriptures at all, let alone light the candles.
I would be very interested to see it came to be known as the festival of lights. Any information you can provide would be valued.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Aug 6, 2004 14:08:51 GMT -8
This is one of those situations when you ask yourself, "What did Yeshua do?"...He celebrated Hannukkah (John 10:22)...probably lit candles too Although, if we want to start a discussion on Hannukkah (Feast of Dedication) we should probably start another thread. Shalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Aug 8, 2004 10:38:30 GMT -8
I would not light Hannukah candles on Shabbat on the regular time, but at the same time I light Shabbat candles. I feel that Hannukah is not bad and I do believe the whole miracle, but it is not a High Holiday. If you miss it, it will be like missing Israeli Independance Day, you feel remorseful, but there is nothing wrong with doing so.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Aug 8, 2004 11:45:22 GMT -8
On a different note...We all know that we should not do -any- work on Shabbat. To me this includes yard work, house work. If our job wants us to come in on -any- part of Sabbath we should be willing to lose our job before breaking the commandment. There is -no- good reason to work on the Sabbath. I know several people that have come to the knowledge of the importance of keeping our Heavenly Father's 4th commandment, but they find excuses why it is permissable to work on the Sabbath. Any thoughts on this issue?
Here is another question for everyone out there. Is it acceptable to buy from any business on Shabbat...even if someone else (whom is not a Sabbath keeper) does the buying for you? Just so no one misunderstands...I don't do this.
Shalom chaverim (peace friends),
Reuel
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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Aug 8, 2004 12:56:06 GMT -8
You may never use goyim to work on Shabbat, and even worse to use a Jew. The Talmud dictates so, but I know Reuel will ask for a non-Talmudic reason, so here goes. Does not the command that evev the stranger living in you land shall keep the Shabbat? The second is because is because it is worse to cause someone to sin than to kill them. |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Aug 8, 2004 14:52:03 GMT -8
Shalom Chumash614, Good points. You stated... Although, the synagouge near me (Beth Shalom) does this very thing. Agree that this should be the case... "Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear YHVH your G'd, and observe to do all the words of this /law..."- Devarim (Deuteronomy) 31:12 We see here that when we are living in a based theocracy that even the stranger/goyim/gentile/those of the nations are to hear all of , and do it. It also states this in Bamidbar (Numbers) 15:15-16 and in several other areas of . And, I would agree that this would apply to those whom claim to be living in the Kingdom now. But, one would argue that because we are not living in a based theocracy that those goyim whom are not observant, and have not joined themselves to the G'd of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob do not fall in this category. Although, we can control what is within our own gates as the Kingdom of Heaven should be reigning there... "But the seventh day is the sabbath of YHVH thy G'd: in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or your stranger that is within your gates"- Shemot (Exodus) 20:10 Another thought...If the Kingdom of Heaven is within us (as we whom are redeemed are under it's rule), than where ever we are we bring the kingdom with us. Therefore, if we make a choice to go to some business and someone becomes our servant (their daily work) for profit (regardless of whom is paying), than we have broken the commandment in regards to refraining our manservant, or maidservant (Jew, or Gentile) from serving us. In turn, I believe if we practice this we have broken the commandment because this is directly under our control (whether, or not they serve us). Yes, it may be true that the person working at Burger King may do so regardless of your presence at the Burger King. But, what you do have control over in the Kingdom of Heaven is what you cause people to do as it is each individual's responsibility to make sure that the of The Kingdom is being carried out. I truly believe that if everyone whom believes in Yeshua HaMashiach, and even those whom do not (in Judaism) would refrain from supporting business on Shabbat...many businesses would employ fewer people on that day if not close down altogether. I see this issue of believers promoting business on Shabbat widespread in both Judaism, and Christianity. What a witness it would be to the world if every one whom believed would not support business on the Sabbath. I agree that we should not aid someone in sinning, and this is essentially what we do if we have -direct- control in regards to someone serving us for profit on Sabbath. The definition of sin is the same for all people groups regardless if the believe, or not. One could make the argument that when we drive on Shabbat we are essentially breaking the Sabbath in regards to city employees working to maintain order (police etc.). Although, what would be the difference if every person in this country observed Shabbat, and did not drive? You would have thousands of people walking the streets. Would the city in which you live not continue to staff such employees to watch over the souls of that city? In other words, we do not have -direct- control over what city employees do as it is their choice to work, or not work. Although, if we break the law, and directly cause our officials to work because of this, than we have also broken the Sabbath. In fact, Israel had their officials on duty (so to speak) in regards the Levitical priesthood, and the judges of those days. Here is one example... "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him." - Bamidmar (Numbers) 15:32-34 We see here that Moses, and Aaron were essentially on duty as the man whom broke Sabbath was brought to them on the Sabbath. It says that he was put "in ward". I highly doubt the prisoner was left by himself with out a guard. We also see that the Levites carry on their duties even on Shabbat, or one is to be cirmumcised regardless if it is on the Shabbat. Also, Israel's army fought their enemies regardless if it was on the Shabbat. Therefore, I would say from this that there are a few exceptions in regards to the Sabbath commandment. But, we should not make the exception the rule. Any thoughts? Reuel |
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portion and other scriptures before bed...and try to learn something new...
