|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Mar 23, 2007 9:33:48 GMT -8
OK I am learning how to do this- I think I get the point that cooking on Shabbat is not on target with how G-d wants us to do it. But what about reheating, especially with the microwave? Right now I have been putting a lot of effort into getting lots of cooking done on Friday, then just eating leftovers and simple foods on Shabbat. It is WONDERFUL! I LOVE IT! I am even thinking of using paper plates now, so I don't have to feel like I have to wash the dishes. I sometimes have to cook breakfast for my husband because he insists on it, as he is not with me on this. But anyway it is getting better and better with what I have been able to do thus far. The more I study  , the more I can see that G-d really love us and wants the best for us. |
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 23, 2007 13:03:37 GMT -8
Shalom Prodigal Girl, First, I'm glad to hear that you are becoming observant... that's awesome! What I do for Shabbat is use a self-heating blech (plugged in before Shabbat of course). This device will warm up the food, and the best part is that you don't have to do anything else! I'm sorry about the situation with your husband, but remember that Shalom Bayit (Peace in the Home) is extremely important. So since you are not Jewish, if he asks you to cook on Shabbat, it is a leniency for you to do so in order to preserve the sanctity of the home. Shabbat Shalom all, Natanel |
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Mar 25, 2007 14:54:59 GMT -8
Thank you Nataniel,
So do you leave it plugged in until end of Shabbat? I am thinking it would be similar in concept to a crockpot. Fri. night is not a problem because I just prepare and cook before Shabbat starts, and try to get the dishes done from that also. The next day is the quandary. I am trying to get at the underlying principle behind the commandment, so I can know how to apply it. I will read the discussions related to that on this site.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 25, 2007 20:03:55 GMT -8
Thank you Nataniel, So do you leave it plugged in until end of Shabbat? I am thinking it would be similar in concept to a crockpot. Fri. night is not a problem because I just prepare and cook before Shabbat starts, and try to get the dishes done from that also. The next day is the quandary. I am trying to get at the underlying principle behind the commandment, so I can know how to apply it. I will read the discussions related to that on this site. No problem. Yes, I do leave it plugged in until the end of Shabbat. I actually make an effort to not turn on/off any electrical devices during Shabbat as I believe it constitutes an act of completion (which is forbidden according to Orthodox Judaism). As for the underlying principle, there are two mitzvot associated with the principle of Shabbat. One: Am Yisrael is to zachor Shabbat. The word zachor means to remember. But this remembrance is more than just not forgetting. It means that Am Yisrael is to remember the significance of Shabbat, both as a commemoration of creation and as commemoration of deliverance from Egypt. Second: We are to shamor Shabbat. The word shamor means to observe. So we are to do our utmost to observe Shabbat to it's fullest. So how does one observe Shabbat? There are many different opinions, some of which have been expressed here. In my opinion there are 39 categories of work that are prohibited. You can look here Jewfaq.org and see them listed out. I hope that helps. Shavua Tov, Natanel |
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Mar 26, 2007 3:57:39 GMT -8
Natanel, there is a third command for us regarding Sabbath that must not be overlooked- and that is simply the command to rest. I know many will look at the thirty-nine prohibitions of orthodoxy and roll their eyes. I'm not going to do that. I am going to say that for Prodigal Girl to take this list and and try to conform to its standard by next Saturday would be suicide. Most people who live by these standards either were born into a home that held them or have taken years to grow into this form of worship.
My favorite description of the Sabbath day is as a dress rehearsal for the bridal feast of the Lamb. If the King of Kings were to send you a letter that said, on Saturday, March 31st I'll be coming to spend the day with you. How would you go about preparing your home? How would you anticipate spending that day? For me, this is a good guide for Sabbath. As He begins to visit more regularly, you will begin to grow in your understanding of what is appropriate. Some things that you originally thought very important will slip away. Other things that you had overlooked will become more pressing.
Is your husband a believer? If he sees your observance of Sabbath as a list of prohibitions, he will undoubtedly have a problem with that. I can't say as I blame him. Yet, if he sees you entering into a new realm or worship and sees how you are refreshed and revitalized by the time you spend with Adonai, his perspectives of the Sabbath observance will most likely undergo a change. I'm not suggesting you put on an act- rather, exactly the opposite. Make the Sabbath a day of rest and worship for you and grow in it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Mar 26, 2007 7:32:26 GMT -8
I had read the 39 things list a few weeks ago. Actually this list that most Christians hear about, never read, and speak negatively of, I found quite helpful as a guide. I am quite excited about Shabbat. One question I have for church folks is, if the Sabbath is spoken of so very emphatically in the Bible (and it is clear that it is) and if there were dire punishments for disobeying it (and there were), then why would such a list be not a good thing? But this list is customarily rediculed in church circles. Does not make sense to me.
I do not tell my husband all the details, but he is somewhat aware that I am doing things a little differently now and paying attention to the Sabbath. Mostly he just thinks I am very wierd, and it worries him. I am sorry about that and sensitive to that. He is not too open to talking about subjects like this, and I mostly get disapproval when I try to speak of them, so I try to keep my words few. Right now, I am trying to just work on myself, ways I can honor the Sabbath the best I can in my situation. I have been thinking and reading about this for about 2 years. I did try to talk with people at my previous church about it, but did not get a particularly helpful response; they just don't understand. I have had to delve into church history, to get to a place where I could make up my own mind. Most of the people in the church have not done this, so it is quite arduous to try to carry on a conversation with them. Some of the books I have read are rather challenging and scholarly. Actually that is the type I prefer, though they can be difficult to read.
From what I have experienced so far, the Messianic community has been very understanding, patient, and tolerant. Lately I have been convicted in the area of getting to the Fri. night service before they light the candles. The rabbi has never said a word to me about it when I run in after the Shema carrying my covered dish; he has always just been welcoming. But I really need to change that behavior.
I think people really just have forgotten what it is to really, really relax totally. I felt it for the first time two weekends ago. It was incredible. I have continually been saying to my church friends, it's a gift, a wonderful gift! They keep trying to make it look like a legalistic obligation!
|
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 26, 2007 17:34:32 GMT -8
Shalom Mark, That's fine if they roll their eyes. I used to be the one doing the rolling. People would ask and I would say, "Oh well, I'm not that strict. I'm not like them." But over time I have come to realize that the 39 melachot are there for my benefit. I no longer see it as a list of do's and don'ts, rather I see them as guidelines for observing and enjoying Shabbat. I wouldn't call it suicide. Keeping is certainly not suicidal. However, I do agree that it would be a lot to take on at once, so I would recommend that one start by refraining from a few malachot at a time, and then continuing and learning from there. Living a life that is shomer takes time. It never comes all at once. It is immensely important that one learn the underlying reason for the mitzvah, along with learning the actual mitzvah itself. Kol hak'vod Prodigal Girl! May HaShem bless you as you continue to learn and walk in his ! Shavua Tov, Natanel |
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Mar 26, 2007 19:17:51 GMT -8
"Kol hak'vod Prodigal Girl
Shavua Tov,
Natanel[/quote]
OK I'm assuming you are saying something nice to me here. I was rather taken aback when my Israeli friends informed me about a year ago that I need to learn Hebrew. Yeah, right, like falling off a log. Actually, I have flashcards made for a lot of the famous people in the Bible, so that I can quote them to my orthodox friend and he will know who I am talking about. He knows the names from going to Yeshiva but not the English names. So to carry on a conversation, it is helpful to know them in Hebrew. I was so excited, when he asked me what the Hebrew name for Paul was (he did not know who Paul was) and I was actually able to tell him Shaul!
Yes I noticed there seems to be a feeling amongst the J4J folks that there are a whole lot of Messianics that have gotten "too legalistic". I received dire warnings from several persons in the church, when I first told them I was researching Messianic theology. Personally, I think it is a dangerous trait of the church that people do not investigate and think for themselves. There is a culture there that frowns on discussions, arguements, disagreements, difficult conversations about theology. We are just supposed to believe whatever the preacher says, not argue, not question. Not research. Just sit there and quietly, politely listen.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mpossoff on Mar 26, 2007 22:36:47 GMT -8
Hi Prodigal Girl there is nothing wrong with traditions of men.
What can become a problem is when the tradition holds more weight than the actual written command.
As Yeshua said For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men
In my opinion those 39 are traditions of men and nothing wrong with them. It's when those 39 become equal or greater than the actual command.
Marc
|
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Mar 27, 2007 2:33:02 GMT -8
One thing Yeshua warned about, as well as others is that we can't let the fine points of observance get in the way of actually fulfilling the great command to love G-d and our neighbor. An example of this is when a church leader works himself to death working for the church, but has no energy or time left for his own family. He neglects the responsibilities he has for his wife and children. He may support them financially, but that's all. Yet this man is hghly respected in the church, looked up to, and spends hours counseling and praying with others. His priorities are wrong. Yet he sure sounds spiritual when he speaks and prays.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Mar 27, 2007 3:28:22 GMT -8
HI Natanel, The "suicide" remark was aimed specifically at "Prodigal Girl"- having a husband who is not inclined at all toward Sabbath observance. I wanted to use a very strong word for her in this case, hoping that she treads lightly and with sensitivity toward the protection of her marriage. Many times the process, the wrestling through the question of a thing, is more valuable than just having been handed the answer. For this reason, I am often disappointed with the way rabbinics have spoon fed mitzvot and how easily we've consumed them (mindlessly, without understanding the reason or owning the application for ourselves). Yet, at the same time, I have found that in the passage of time as people grow more and more in their love for , the eventual conclusions may often be very similar. The difference is that one person does so because they know they are supposed to. The other does them out of a close walk in relationship with Adonai. |
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 2, 2007 11:20:40 GMT -8
Shalom Mark,
I understand. I just thought it was a little strong, that's all. I also urged her to tread lightly, since her husband is not supportive.
I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive. One does what they are supposed to because of their close walk with HaShem. I think that that's the way it was intended from the very beginning.
Faith (emunah; trusting faith) without deeds is lifeless. But, deeds without faith are likewise lifeless as well. The two truly go hand-in-hand. You can't go through life saying you have faith in something without acting upon it. Such a person would be deemed a hypocrite, and rightfully so. They say one thing, but do another (by never acting upon it). Likewise, a person who goes through life just going through the motions but not believing in what he/she is doing, will soon find that their life is empty and meaningless.
Chag Pesach Sameach all,
Natanel
|
|
|
|
Post by steve_613++ on May 6, 2007 7:05:52 GMT -8
Shalom everyone. My name is Steve and I haven't been active on this site for a couple of years now - it's good to be back. It is also heartening to see that many other people are struggling with the same issues. Cooking on Shabbat Here's what I do at the moment: I prefer to have all cooking of food completed by sunset. I've used the crock-pot system to keep wonderful cholent warm for twenty four hours. But recently I have relaxed a bit on the issue of re-heating pre-cooked meals. The food is not being re-cooked. We often buy in Indian food from the supermarket (pre-cooked / chilled). Everything in these family packs is already cooked with the exception of the Onion bhaji, which is a ball of chopped/fried onion soaked in a spicy batter. They look cooked but I think they are only partly cooked and definitely lose their farinaceous [ great word for flour-y powdery] taste when they come out of the oven. So just to be sure, I don't use them on Shabbat. As for hot drinks, I use an electric water-heater or urn that brings the water up to about 90 degrees Celsius and keeps it there. It okay for tea and coffee. I am uncomfortable with heating water from cold to make drinks on Shabbat. Why, you may ask, have I relaxed on the re-heating issue? Family harmony. My wife is very supportive but not as keen to be so strictly observant as me. I also avoid the switching on and off electric lights, but that's another discussion. It is taking longer than I thought to adopt the fully obedient lifestyle, but this is my target. I could expand on the above points but I'll let the group take up the discussion if it wants to. Shalom. Steve. |
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on May 6, 2007 17:01:42 GMT -8
I totally agree with you on the cooking. I try to avoid any mixing or cooking. I try use pre-cooked, pre-mixed, pre-cut stuff as much as possible. My family so far has been pretty tolerant of this. I just tell them it's my day off. If they want to cook, that is up to them but normally they don't anyway and don't on Shabbat which is great by me. It has been a gradual process and I am still tweaking it. But now that I have tried it, I like it so much I am hooked! One thing I do want to try is using paper plates more. I just have to remember to set them out and remind people to use them. This would cut down on some of the mess which requires work to clean up.
At this point I do heat up water and other things on the electric stove, turning it on and off. I am not saying this is the right thing, I am just explaining where i am right now. But mostly I just heat things in the microwave. No difference really in my mind.
The whole point is to minimize work, for yourself and everyone else. I also try to steer the family away from eating out or traveling long distances on that day. This is a bit of a challenge as none of my family is messianic, so it is sometimes hard to avoid. But certainly there is a lot I can do, and i am thankful for what i am able to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 12, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -8
Amein, Adonai gives us His mitzvoth for our good.
I may be misunderstanding, but I don’t think the word of God quite communicates this. Truth is very definite. True, we can find several ways to fulfill a mitzvah. But, I don’t think Elohim meant for us to simply make things up or do what is right in our own eyes.
Shalom,
Re’u’el
|
|
, the more I can see that G-d really love us and wants the best for us.
