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Post by Frank T. Clark on Apr 23, 2013 12:46:26 GMT -8
I have been away from this forum for over eight years so I suspect I am a bit like a newbie. Maybe I can introduce myself again and let you know what I have been doing. When I first joined this forum I was a new convert to the . I have spent the last eight years diligently studying to learn all the truth which had been hidden from me. I belonged to a denomination which was at the forefront of following truth for a "Christian" denomination as they kept the weekly Sabbath and a handful of statutes from the Law of Moses. When I found out I was not encouraged to study all the Bible had to say about I was shocked. I have come a long way following God's truth. Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
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Post by alon on Apr 23, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -8
It's good to see you back!
I too am still trying to find my place in the Messianic movement. I'm about to the point of just giving up and let God put me where He wants! But since compared to you I am pretty new to this (just over two years specifically looking at things Messianic), maybe I can still give it time.
Hope to see many of your posts! Welcome back!
Dan C
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Post by Yedidyah on Apr 23, 2013 16:06:33 GMT -8
Shalom Frank! Glad to have you back and look forward to seeing more of your posts. It is always nice to have more people adding their input!
Yedidyah
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Apr 24, 2013 10:11:57 GMT -8
So many people are using nicknames instead of their real name I am pondering whether I might do the same. I already go by the pen name Eliau with the six books I have published. alon: I decided 8 years ago I was not in the Messianic movement. However, I cannot escape the fact that they share a large part of my belief. As Yedidyah mentioned in another post, (IIRC) I do not consider the rabbinical tradition anything more than commentary. The Messianic movement is very broad and includes a very wide range of belief systems. It is the same thing with Judaism and most belief systems. Our God has a very large heart and is far more tolerant with us than we are with each other. I have committed myself to Sola Scriptura in a sense far deeper than many others who claim to have the same belief. It is amazing how this puts me out of touch with everybody. Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
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tonga
Full Member
Posts: 243
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Post by tonga on Apr 24, 2013 10:27:48 GMT -8
Welcome back to the forum!
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Post by dave784 on Apr 25, 2013 18:48:52 GMT -8
Welcome, I have read some of your previous posts and look forward to your interaction..
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Post by yiska on Apr 28, 2013 10:13:58 GMT -8
welcome aboard! Shalom!
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 30, 2013 8:07:16 GMT -8
B"H
Shalom and welcome back Frank! It is good to hear from you again.
May Adonai richly bless you!
R' Reuel
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jul 4, 2014 6:44:37 GMT -8
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Hello there, Frank, nice to see you are going to be posting here again. I've read some of your posts, i'm looking forward to reading some more. Can I ask you why you posted the quote fro Revelations? Thank you for asking! I spoke of a search for truth and in the quote from Revelation it speaks of a group that is sealed because it seeks and follows truth.
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
My study and ministry focus is on the understanding and application of Biblical truth and prophetic revelation of events at the end of time. I believe we are in the time of the end soon leading to the end of time. The Bible identifies the 144k as having a significant role in end time events.
I have again ceased posting here very much but was drawn back by an email notification of your quoting me. It seems to me the heavy emphasis on traditions and traditional interpretation on this forum is in danger of stifling the enlightenment of the clear Word of God. There is such a strong focus on the past (Which it is true we must not forget) that there is a loss of focus on the present and the future.
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jul 4, 2014 8:21:50 GMT -8
You flatter me Frank, i wouldn't have thought my message would have appealed to you. But this is why i don't do photo's, the camera can lie. What was the quote if you don't mind me asking? One more thing , where is the tribe of Dan? and why only 144 000? I am confused. You asked a question and I responded. How is that flattery? The quote was from Revelation 14:4 and was quoted in your response and included in my response to you. Your other questions are so truncated and out of context that I am at a loss to understand how to respond. These are some attempts at short answers to those deeper subjects. Those symbolically represented by the tribe of Dan are excluded because of their critical natures as prophesied by Jacob. Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. ... Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. The 144k are first fruits meaning there will be more later. Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jul 6, 2014 5:55:46 GMT -8
I believe in an all powerful God who can maintain the integrity of ALL His Word.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jul 6, 2014 6:16:17 GMT -8
Yes, I believe in the integrity of the Bible and that it is ALL true. God has preserved ALL His scripture as we have it today. If you don't believe in the integrity of the Bible and that it is ALL true, then why are you on this forum?
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Post by Questor on Jul 6, 2014 13:52:12 GMT -8
You flatter me Frank, i wouldn't have thought my message would have appealed to you. But this is why i don't do photo's, the camera can lie. What was the quote if you don't mind me asking? One more thing , where is the tribe of Dan? and why only 144 000? I am confused. You asked a question and I responded. How is that flattery? The quote was from Revelation 14:4 and was quoted in your response and included in my response to you. Your other questions are so truncated and out of context that I am at a loss to understand how to respond. These are some attempts at short answers to those deeper subjects. Those symbolically represented by the tribe of Dan are excluded because of their critical natures as prophesied by Jacob. Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. ... Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
The 144k are first fruits meaning there will be more later. Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Thank you, Frank. I had never put this together in my thoughts, that part of a people such as Israel could be so critical of the actions of others that the remainder of the tribes of Israel cannot go forward spiritually, but it seems to have been so for Israel. Focusing on the details of ritual, for instance, as a means of getting others to be seen to follow a law can keep them from prospering, as their souls do not prosper. There is no true understanding of YHVH, or any real delight in seeking His face under those circumstances.
Judgement...condemning another person to death, whether of the body, or of the soul must be left to Yehoshua alone, as it is so final, and it is too easy to not take a proper account of all the circumstances. I am grateful not to be obliged to condemn anyone.
In my case, I would settle for full understanding on the part of the evil-doer of what he has done, and how it affected people, but I know that does not give justice to those harmed, nor can I see just what was going on in the mind of the evil-doer when his actions were made as Yehoshua can.
I do not know the history of Dan as a tribe, nor if the prophecy made is only about the end times, and not relating to Dan as a tribe, but as a tendency within the people of Israel. What are your thoughts?
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Post by Questor on Jul 6, 2014 14:04:38 GMT -8
You flatter me Frank, i wouldn't have thought my message would have appealed to you. But this is why i don't do photo's, the camera can lie. What was the quote if you don't mind me asking? One more thing , where is the tribe of Dan? and why only 144 000? I am confused. You asked a question and I responded. How is that flattery? The quote was from Revelation 14:4 and was quoted in your response and included in my response to you. Your other questions are so truncated and out of context that I am at a loss to understand how to respond. These are some attempts at short answers to those deeper subjects. Those symbolically represented by the tribe of Dan are excluded because of their critical natures as prophesied by Jacob. Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. ... Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. The 144k are first fruits meaning there will be more later.Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Do you consider the 144,000 to be taken a specific number of people, or as a numerically perfect number of persons? I am not a numerologist, but 12 x 12 x 1000 seems to be referring to perfect government squared, carried out to perfection.
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jul 7, 2014 4:58:33 GMT -8
Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. ... Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
I do not know the history of Dan as a tribe, nor if the prophecy made is only about the end times, and not relating to Dan as a tribe, but as a tendency within the people of Israel. What are your thoughts? Verse 1 says "last days" so I suspect it was primarily prophetic and symbolic. I don't know much of the history either and I don't recall much other Biblical comment. Judgment is a very difficult and severe problem and struggle to avoid. I suspect 144k is a literal number with a very specific symbolism. I suspect it is two witnesses from every symbolic tribe for every year of sin. 2*12*6000 I see a great deal of symbolism and repeating patterns in all that God does throughout all history. The Bible clearly indicates the interaction of the literal and the symbolic in many aspects of the created world, life, and religion.
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